jeffrey zeldman presents : an angry fix
jeffrey zeldman presents : an angry fix
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17 july 2006 10 am eastern
an angry fix
some of the best minds working in web standards have been quietly or loudly abandoning the w3c. björn hörmann is the latest. his reasons for leaving the w3c qa group make compelling reading (hat tip: terje bless). i believe in w3c standards, particularly the ones you and i use every day, but i worry about the direction in which the w3c is headed.
beholden to its corporate paymasters who alone can afford membership, the w3c seems increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers. truth be told, we and our practical concerns never drove the organization. but after ordinary designers and developers spent nearly a decade selling web standards to browser makers and developing best practices around accessibility and semantics, one hoped the w3c might realize that there was value in occasionally consulting its user base.
alas, the organization appears unconcerned with our needs and uninterested in tapping our experience and insights. it remains a closed, a one-way system. like old-fashioned pre-cable tv advertising. not like the web.
to be fair, the w3c solicits community feedback before finalizing its recommendations. but asking people to comment on something that is nearly finished is not the same as finding out what they need and soliciting their collaboration from the start.
we require coherent specifications based on our and our users’ actual needs. upcoming accessibility and markup specifications fail on both counts. we require validation tools that work and are kept up to date. instead, tools are still broken years after problems are reported.
two things could happen. either the w3c will make a course correction, or the standards-based design community will look elsewhere.
tags: web standards, w3c, wcag, xhtml, web design, microformats
filed under: accessibility, w3c, tools, industry, development, standards, design
77 responses to “an angry fix”
pig pen - web standards compliant web design blog » blog archive » zeldman about standards said on
july 17th, 2006 at 5:53 pm:
[…] zeldman about standards and what is going awfully wrong at the world wide web consortium (w3c) - a must read today. […]
i fed the bear » blog archive » jeffrey zeldman slags the w3c said on
july 17th, 2006 at 6:00 pm:
[…] and rightfully so, he alludes to the notion that the w3c may be pandering to its corporate masters and avoiding concrete discussion w/ those in the trenches of the developing community. it had to be said sooner than later. […]
position: absolute » featuring : w3c slacking? said on
july 18th, 2006 at 6:33 pm:
[…] it seems like problems concerning the w3c are arising, new standards are going nowhere and our great fathers of the w3c are sleeping. at least, this is the impression björn höhrmann gives us in his public statement concerning his departure from the w3c. well-known and respected standards evangelist jeffrey zeldman seems to agree and adds his comments: beholden to its corporate paymasters who alone can afford membership, the w3c seems increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers. […]
mike rowehl: this is mobility » blog archive » w3c shakeup said on
july 18th, 2006 at 11:01 pm:
[…] some of the folks long involved with the w3c have been wandering or stomping away as of late. the problem seems to be detachment from the “ordinary designers and developers”. i’m struggling to figure out what that means for the mobile web initiative. good or bad? […]
structure et sens : ne confondons pas les torchons et les serviettes said on
july 19th, 2006 at 3:16 am:
[…] jeffrey zeldman brocarde l’incapacité du w3c à se mettre à l’écoute des besoins des développeurs et designers web, et prédit que la communauté finira par se tourner vers autre chose faute de n’avoir pas été entendue. je ne connais pas assez bien le fonctionnement du w3c pour prendre position à ce sujet, mais je vous recommande la lecture de la réponse de karl dubost qui est un modèle de diplomatie sans la langue de bois. […]
afrodesia mediaworks said on
july 20th, 2006 at 2:31 pm:
[…] 17 july 2006 10 am eastern […]
are web design standards a sinking ship? » wagalulu - web development » » are web design standards a sinking ship? said on
july 24th, 2006 at 1:51 pm:
[…] an angry fix, by jeff zeldman brought to our attention the case of björn hörmann leaving w3c’s qa development. (that’s quality assurance development, for those unfamiliar with the term.) hörmann, who has chosen to “discontinue my participation” writes: “i believe for our society to progress it’s essential that our culture, our knowledge, and our society itself are as accessible as possible to everyone; web standards are how we choose to achieve this on the world wide web, and for us to communicate, especially if we have special needs or novel ideas about information access, it depends on compliance to web standards. with this in mind i became interested in assuring standards compliance on the web and involved in the development of tools meant to help in this respect at the world wide web consortium seven years ago.” […]
boîte noire » archive du blog » les petites choses utiles du mardi, vol. 24 said on
july 25th, 2006 at 2:34 am:
[…] if even jeffrey zeldman starts worrying, then there’s definitely something rotten in the kindgom of w3c. […]
misplaced anger: a rebuttal to zeldman’s criticism of the w3c - the web standards project said on
july 26th, 2006 at 1:48 am:
[…] there’s been discussion in the community about unrest at the w3c. this isn’t exactly news to most, particularly if you’ve been following the wcag 2.0 saga. this time, however, the criticism comes from a strong voice, none other than jeffrey zeldman. skip to comment form […]
slashdot: news for nerds, stuff that matters said on
july 28th, 2006 at 6:21 am:
[…] your rights online: problems at the w3c posted by scuttlemonkey on tuesday july 18, @03:16pm from the family-feud dept. dustin writes “public outcry against the workings of the world wide web consortium (w3c) is growing. on sunday, björn höhrmann announced his departure in a lengthy critique of problems at the w3c. web standards champion zeldman adds his comments as well: ‘beholden to its corporate paymasters who alone can afford membership, the w3c seems increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers.’” […]
qalicious - news from there and elsewhere from karl dubost on 2006-07-24 (public-evangelist@w3.org from july 2006) said on
july 28th, 2006 at 11:02 am:
[…] * bjoern hoermann stopped his participation to the development of validators. http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-qa-dev/2006jul/0011 he explained that the lack of answers to certain precise technical questions by html wg following the w3c process was making the development of validators too difficult to be really effective for his time. he thought his time will be more useful in css wg and webapi wg as an invited expert. - jeffrey zeldman used the news and mixed two different issues http://www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ - then we replied asking for more feedback http://www.w3.org/qa/2006/07/a_peaceful_ear.html - […]
heise online - unruhe im umfeld des w3c [update] said on
july 28th, 2006 at 11:23 am:
[…] der zitierte jeffrey zeldman kommentiert in an angry fix hhrmanns weggang und beklagt, dass das konsortium von normalen designern und entwicklern immer weiter entfernt sei (increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers): gleichsam eine besttigung fr den abschied hhrmanns. [update:] laut karl dubosts kommentar (a peaceful ear) zu “an angry fix” will hhrmann in der css-arbeitsgruppe des konsortiums weiter arbeiten. [ende des update] […]
a peaceful ear - w3c qa weblog said on
july 28th, 2006 at 12:07 pm:
[…] jeffrey zeldman has written a weblog entry an angry fix about björn hörmann’s message on his reasons for leaving the group doing the development of w3c validators. he made a few points in his message which will be certainly discussed by the web communities in the following days. […]
accessify forum: more w3c disappointment said on
july 28th, 2006 at 7:46 pm:
[…] http://www.zeldman.com/…_________________easy to use, accessible, standards based cms […]
nickpan | web designer, blogger in singapore and web standards evangalist » blog archive » bring me to your leader. said on
july 29th, 2006 at 1:59 am:
[…] the web is taking a strange turn of late. important people of our internet future are voicing their anger at how the w3c is and with people that matter leaving we have to start finding yet a new body, a new leader to lead us into our promised land. […]
max design » some links for light reading (19/7/06) said on
july 29th, 2006 at 2:45 am:
[…] an angry fix […]
groups.drupal.org said on
july 29th, 2006 at 3:59 am:
[…] an angry fix by jeffrey zeldman http://www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ […]
missmac.net » archivio del blog » tempi duri per il w3c: sorridiamoci sopra said on
july 29th, 2006 at 8:58 am:
[…] negli ultimi mesi il w3c ha attirato critiche e sfiducia, e la tensione è alle stelle: joe clark manda al diavolo le wcag 2, maurizio boscarol parla di balcanizzazione dell’accessibilità, e jeffrey zeldman fa il punto della situazione, e conclude: o il w3c si mette in riga, avvicinandosi alle esigenze degli sviluppatori, o la comunità dei sostenitori degli standard web comincerà a guardare altrove. […]
slashdot | problems at the w3c said on
july 29th, 2006 at 9:19 am:
[…] his comments […]
petite colre de zeldman propos du w3c - i.l. blog said on
july 29th, 2006 at 6:55 pm:
[…] lire retour liste […]
australian infront forums said on
july 30th, 2006 at 6:50 pm:
[…] i know it’s a couple weeks old now, but anyone who hasn’t read it might be interested to read björn hörmann’s letter explaining his reasons for leaving the w3c, and jeffrey zeldman’s comments about the state of the w3c. […]
abyssus abyssum invocat said on
july 31st, 2006 at 10:47 am:
[…] noteworthy url’s from del.ici.ous - an angry fixtags: standards, w3c, web […]
clickculture blog: zeldman slams the w3c said on
july 31st, 2006 at 6:17 pm:
[…] interesting and probably worthy of more study. comments (0) | print | send | del.icio.us | linking blogs comments […]
noticias pendientes // menéame said on
august 1st, 2006 at 7:22 am:
[…] jeffrey zeldman enfadado con el w3c (en inglés)www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ enviado por axiertxo hace 4 horas 30 minutos varios de los mejores cerebros en aras de los estándares web estan abandonando la w3c(http://www.w3c.org) "creo en los estandares web de la w3c, particularmente los que usamos tu y yo cada día, pero estoy preocupado con el camino que están tomando…"etiquetas: jeffrey, zeldman, enfadado, w3c 6 comentarioscategoría: tecnología karma: 36 18meneosmenéalo […]
見当違いの怒り：zeldmanのw3c批判に対する反論 | web標準blog | ミツエーリンクス said on
august 1st, 2006 at 8:52 am:
[…] jeffrey zeldmanは、自らの記事「an angry fix（怒りのフィックス）」の中で、次のように述べています。 […]
hasematzel.de » quo vadis, w3c? said on
august 1st, 2006 at 11:36 am:
[…] so geschehen gerade mit mir durch den beitrag “an angry fix” von jeffrey zeldman. jeffrey gründet seinen post auf den abschiedsbrief von björn höhrmann, der das w3c-qa team verläßt. jeffrey schlußfolgert recht drastisch: two things could happen. either the w3c will make a course correction, or the standards-based design community will look elsewhere. […]
problems at w3c - cre8asite forums said on
august 1st, 2006 at 4:29 pm:
[…] jeffrey zeldman points out some problems at w3c. […]
mikrofortschritte – selfhtml aktuell weblog said on
august 2nd, 2006 at 11:14 am:
[…] traditionell ist ein webstandards-verfechter auch ein überzeugter w3c-anhänger – zumindest grundsätzlich. in der letzten zeit erleidet diese eintracht und symbiose rückschläge. björn höhrmanns w3c-kritik aus den eigenen reihen bekam eine neue qualität, als sich einer der bekanntesten protagonisten der webstandards-bewegung mit ihm solidarisierte und seine kritik mit schärfe weiterführte: jeffrey zeldman konstatiert in seinem blog-beitrag an angry fix eine tatsächliche trennung zwischen dem w3c und der webentwickler-community: we and our practical concerns never drove the organization. […]
kommkonzept - nachrichten und informationen said on
august 3rd, 2006 at 4:19 pm:
[…] eine detaillierte kritik des entwurfs hat joe clark unter dem vielsagenden titel to hell with wcag2 verffentlicht. jeffrey zeldmann geht nachgerade so weit, einen abgesang auf das w3c berhaupt anzustimmen. […]
sholom sandalow said on
august 4th, 2006 at 11:36 am:
this scares me. if the w3c loses resepectability and authority, are we headed back to the bad old days?
jeffrey zeldman said on
august 4th, 2006 at 12:04 pm:
i think we’re looking at a course correction on the part of the w3c. they need to pay attention to what our community is doing and work more closely with us. a little bird tells me that they know this, and that positive changes may be in the offing.
nu/mb - w3c trouble in paradise - powered by xmb said on
august 4th, 2006 at 8:18 pm:
[…] w3c trouble in paradise just spotted this on slashdot seems that one of the developers has dropped from the team because of their lazyness and their ever growing cut off from the community.. looks like someones too big for their boots. http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-qa-dev/2006jul/0011 and http://www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ source: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/07/18/1725252.shtml team australia > tso […]
in nomine… » take back the web! said on
august 5th, 2006 at 7:42 am:
[…] http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-qa-dev/2006jul/0011 http://www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ http://www.alistapart.com/articles/tohellwithwcag2/ http://www.dzr-web.com/people/darren/blog/2006/07/12/is-the-w3c-failing-us/ […]
zybatsu: store, share and tag your favourite links said on
august 5th, 2006 at 11:20 am:
[…] jeffrey zeldman presents : an angry fix some of the best minds working in web standards have been quietly or loudly abandoning the w3c. 04-08-2006 to usability, web standards by zybatsu […]
silentwarrior.ch.vu » das image des w3c bröckelt said on
august 6th, 2006 at 6:44 pm:
[…] jeffrey zeldman gibt ihm recht. […]
max design » some links for light reading (28/7/06) said on
august 7th, 2006 at 5:07 pm:
[…] an angry fix […]
project syndicate » blog archive » show / hide solution said on
august 11th, 2006 at 8:51 am:
[…] according to that definition, the way i’m proposing noscript be used is perfectly legitimate. despite that, the validator has a little problem with it. however, given recent dissention with the w3c process and validator, voiced by zeldman and hoehrmann, i think that perhaps we should err on the side of usability and accessibilty as opposed to some automated checklist. […]
friends (communities) said on
august 14th, 2006 at 10:24 am:
[…] navigation recent entries - tags list - archive user info - memories - todo netrophic - joule back 20 entries meyerweb_tech monday, august 14th, 2006 at 8:37 am - angry indeedhttp://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2006/08/14/angry-indeed/ in my head, at any rate, it was jeffrey’s angry post that kicked off the latest round of posts about consortium contretemps, even though jeffrey’s post was triggered (at least in part) by a message posted to the fairly obscure public-qa-dev mailing list by björn höhrmann, detailing his reasons for leaving the w3c. […]
gezeitenwechsel said on
august 14th, 2006 at 6:17 pm:
[…] die gewichte scheinen sich zu verschieben. man muss das eher valiumhafte gemüt des inzwischen optisch zum heinz-rudolf-kunze-doppelgänger mutierten jeffrey zeldman über die jahre gelesen haben, um zu ahnen, was sich da aufgestaut haben muss, dass sich zeldman zu solch einer wütenden reaktion in aller blogöffentlichkeit hinreißen lässt: ”an angry fix” (und man sollte auch die auslösende email lesen). […]
w3c - et tregt byråkrati uten realisme? - bza.no said on
august 15th, 2006 at 11:50 am:
[…] diskusjonen rundt w3cs utvikling har i det siste svirret i de store bloggene på nettet. sjefen sjøl støtter björn hõrnmanns grunner for å forlate orgranisasjonens arbeidsgrupper. utviklingen i w3c er for treg, for komplisert og lite målrettet. arbeidsdokument, arbeidsgrupper og utkast på formater ingen bruker, ingen ønsker å bruke og ingen kommer til å bruke dukker stadig opp. standardene som alle ønsker og tror kan videreutvikle dagens www blir forglemt eller stagnert i nye smårettelser og lite praktiske dokumenter. aktivisten og wasp-sjefen molly holzschlag forsøker å parere angrepet fra zeldman, men får liten støtte fra andre sterke krefter. […]
discussão sobre os rumos da w3c » revolução etc - web standards em uma casca de noz! said on
august 15th, 2006 at 1:02 pm:
[…] jeffrey zeldman: an angry fix […]
something went wrong at the w3c? - anne’s weblog said on
august 15th, 2006 at 3:14 pm:
[…] an angry fix […]
rob cherny.com: web standards and stuff: web development and other stuff said on
august 16th, 2006 at 9:07 am:
[…] an angry fix […]
denken Über » week-log.186 said on
august 19th, 2006 at 1:17 pm:
[…] - tecnorantes y el verdadero negocio en la web 2.0 - un argentino en japón un excelente blog que descubrí y habla sobre la cultura japonesa, la vida de un inmigrante en una “cadena” de producción y algunas cosas más.. - rba habla del “grupo étnico más diverso del planeta… y de porque “el nuevo terra no cuela aqui” dos posts realmente buenos sobre el ambiente de innovación y del mercado hispanoparlante.. notas polémicas pero realmente buenas - end of wires y otro país con mas de 1 móvil por persona - rubendomfer vuelve al ruedo - fabio de paso habla de la creatividad.. - proletarium y una muestra de como se puede aprovechar internet - alt1040 y un “psphone” ¿? - andrés y una forma simple de probar anuncios de adsense sin tener problemas - pensamientos despeinados vuelve al 95 gracias a dattatec… igual con como me trató dh a mi.. que se yo - wwwhat’s new? con dominio propio.. se me pasó :s - display: none y una lista de manuales con licencia creative commons (lo posteó hace tiempo pero me pareció interesante como idea y como recurso) - gorkaff patento las patentes… - sigt y algo más del plagio en la red - ricardo galli y una solución más para protegerse de spammers… lo que hace que mi htaccess sea ya gigante :s - tecniart y la resaca de las burbujas - atalaya y un negocio “oficial” de parking de dominios :s - alt1040 y los “perdidos” de verdad - rascacielos (de tintachina) sigue y sigue :) - ojobuscador hace historia de los buscadores y es muy completa - error500 anuncia que writely está abierto para nuevos usuarios - isopixel pide datos de programas p2p para mac - terremoto, que ultimamente esta activo al 100%, y un nuevo libro para mi wish-list - jeffrey zeldman (en inglés) pero me sorprende que no haya eco de esta noticia.. luego de mucho pelear por los estándares ver como se “abren” los grandes es triste. […]
georss blog » w3c geospatial incubator group said on
august 21st, 2006 at 5:36 pm:
[…] of course, then there are the people who are jumping ship […]
alan, web developer said on
august 22nd, 2006 at 4:11 am:
sometimes w3c is criticized for limiting the concept of web service with a single stress on soap/wsdl based service, excluding the rest ones.
yeah, nyman’s back - robert’s talk said on
august 22nd, 2006 at 8:36 am:
[…] w3c and their influence were questioned by zeldman in an angry fix and followed up by eric meyer in angry indeed. […]
en vrac - standblog - tristan nitot sur les standards du w3c, les navigateurs et la technologie said on
august 22nd, 2006 at 8:49 am:
[…] vous l’avez srement remarqu dernirement, nombreux sont les acteurs du web qui tombent bras raccourcis sur le w3c… hixie, zeldman, eric meyer, mollie (qui, en faisant mine de dfendre le w3c, enfonce en fait le clou). mme karl, respectueux du processus interne au w3c, a list 69 commentaires sur les limites, incohrences et dangers de xhtml2. daniel n’est pas en reste, avec quantit de billets rageurs (dont 1, 2 et 3). alors, le w3c marcherait-il sur la tte ? comment en est on arriv l ? que peut-on faire pour remdier cela ? david baron tente de rpondre ces questions ; […]
w3c and the overton window [dive into mark] said on
august 23rd, 2006 at 5:57 pm:
[…] jeffrey zeldman: an angry fix […]
patty bradley-diehl » blog archive » ongoing conversation about the w3c said on
august 28th, 2006 at 4:20 pm:
[…] wrong again. here are links to the debate so far: leaving w3c qa dev. from bjoern hoehrmann on 2006-07-16 (public-qa-dev@w3.org from july 2006 jeffrey zeldman presents : an angry fix misplaced anger: a rebuttal to zeldman’s criticism of the w3c - the web standards project molly e. holzschlag eric’s archived thoughts: angry indeed […]
qual o problema da w3c? - bruno torres ponto net said on
august 28th, 2006 at 6:39 pm:
[…] tanto o texto do zeldman quanto o email de despedida do björn hörmann (o membro em questão), mostram falhas terríveis do w3c em manter o desenvolvimento e o funcionamento de ferramentas importantíssimas como o validador de html, e em ouvir o que dizem e pedem os desenvolvedores (tanto os mais “distantes” como eu e você quanto os mais “próximos”, envolvidos no desenvolvimento de tecnologias em diversos grupos dentro do w3c). […]
denken Über » otro borrador xhtml 2.0 said on
august 30th, 2006 at 12:40 am:
[…] creo que este tipo de cosas son las que generan problemas como el de zeldman y algunos devs abandonando la w3c […]
learning the world » blog archive » to hell with joe clark said on
august 31st, 2006 at 8:51 am:
[…] his assault on the w3c set a spark to the tinderbox, and suddenly we heard concerns confirming the bad state of the consortium from respected celebs like jeffrey zeldmann, molly holzschlag, eric meyer, björn höhrmann, and tim berners-lee, to name a few. […]
mink machine said on
august 31st, 2006 at 3:53 pm:
[…] things have really hit the fan this past week. it all started with björn höhrmann leaving the w3c with an open letter, soon followed by an angry reaction by none other than jeffrey zeldman and then the snowball really took off. w3c was further questioned by eric meyer in angry indeed and even molly played both sides. […]
gregarius » standblog said on
september 5th, 2006 at 2:54 am:
[…] vous l’avez sûrement remarqué dernièrement, nombreux sont les acteurs du web qui tombent à bras raccourcis sur le w3c… hixie, zeldman, eric meyer, molly (qui, en faisant mine de défendre le w3c, enfonce en fait le clou). même karl, respectueux du processus interne au w3c, a listé 69 commentaires sur les limites, incohérences et dangers de xhtml2. daniel n’est pas en reste, avec quantité de billets rageurs (dont 1, 2 et 3). alors, le w3c marcherait-il sur la tête ? comment en est on arrivé là ? que peut-on faire pour remédier à cela ? david baron tente de répondre à ces questions ; […]
web design references: standards, guidelines and patterns said on
september 13th, 2006 at 7:00 am:
[…] an angry fix - jeffery zeldman. […]
sitepoint blogs » jul 19, 2006 news wire said on
september 14th, 2006 at 8:03 am:
[…] an angry fix jeffrey zeldman shares his thoughts on the current state of the w3c in light of several recent high-profile departures from the organization. is the w3c failing us? (tags: standards) […]
¿w3c desconectado? • grancomo said on
september 17th, 2006 at 5:36 pm:
[…] entre los expertos reconocidos del diseño web, personas que han influido decisivamente en la actual web, se encuentran desde la postura supercrítica de los fundadores del webstandards group jeffrey zeldman o eric meyer que denuncian la lentitud y distancia del w3c respecto los problemas reales de la comunidad web. beholden to its corporate paymasters who alone can afford membership, the w3c seems increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers. truth be told, we and our practical concerns never drove the organization. but after ordinary designers and developers spent nearly a decade selling web standards to browser makers and developing best practices around accessibility and semantics, one hoped the w3c might realize that there was value in occasionally consulting its user base. – jeffrey zeldman to be fair, the w3c solicits community feedback before finalizing its recommendations. but asking people to comment on something that is nearly finished is not the same as finding out what they need and soliciting their collaboration from the start. – jeffrey zeldman let’s be frank: a whole lot of people who believe passionately in the web’s potential and want to see it advance fought for years to make that happen through the w3c, and finally decided they’d had enough. one by one, i saw some of the best minds of my generation soured by the w3c; one by one, the embittered generals marched forward, determined to make some sort of progress. – eric meyer […]
dead reckoning » archive » cambridge, we have a problem said on
september 18th, 2006 at 2:34 am:
[…] jeffrey zeldman: “an angry fix” beholden to its corporate paymasters who alone can afford membership, the w3c seems increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers. truth be told, we and our practical concerns never drove the organization. but after ordinary designers and developers spent nearly a decade selling web standards to browser makers and developing best practices around accessibility and semantics, one hoped the w3c might realize that there was value in occasionally consulting its user base. alas, the organization appears unconcerned with our needs and uninterested in tapping our experience and insights. it remains a closed, a one-way system. like old-fashioned pre-cable tv advertising. not like the web. to be fair, the w3c solicits community feedback before finalizing its recommendations. but asking people to comment on something that is nearly finished is not the same as finding out what they need and soliciting their collaboration from the start. […]
daniel mayse said on
october 11th, 2006 at 6:51 am:
hi!
i’ve read the article and found it really nice and interesting.
w3c is a great organisation, i suppose. there are the plenty of sites, and they do everything right, controlling them, because people sometimes do not know what they do wrong. and it is their task to take care of it.
great deal!
phlogiston » blog archive » slashdot: problems at the w3c said on
october 12th, 2006 at 9:54 pm:
[…] huh. i just read the jeffrey zeldman blog post linked to in the slashdot article, and he links back to my “is the w3c failing us?” post. i’m a big big fan of mr. zeldman, so that’s kinda cool. of course it could indicate that the links on this issue just go round and round in a circle! anyway, i’m like famous now. who wants to touch me? i said who wants to touch me? […]
dal polemika okolo w3c -- koment -- magazn -- interval.cz said on
october 16th, 2006 at 3:50 am:
[…] piblin ve stejnou dobu vyjdili znepokojen nad nedostatkem pokroku ve w3c prominentn jednotlivci z komunity webovch vvoj. jeffrey zeldman kritizoval w3c za nedostatek zjmu o poteby webovch vvoj. eric meyer (vznan autor css) se k tmto obavm pidal a poukzal na to, e molly holzschlag pi vyvracen zeldmanovy kritiky vlastn akceptovala jednu z jeho hlavnch nmitek. […]
hindu said on
october 27th, 2006 at 1:42 am:
if w3c does not listen to leading figures like zeldman, they better get their act staright!
tim berners-lee: reinventing html (reddit.com) said on
october 27th, 2006 at 10:58 pm:
[…] well, the new direction seems mostly a concession to the angry people online, and they seem to just want incremental improvements to the html status quo. i suppose that is closer to the what wg agenda (going by your description and a quick look at the spec) than the xhtml 2.0 one. […]
jessica’s blog » blog archive » an angry fix from zeldman said on
october 30th, 2006 at 4:48 am:
[…] an angry fix […]
learning the world » reforming html said on
october 30th, 2006 at 8:19 am:
[…] many good people have expressed their concern about the state of the w3c, like jeffrey zeldmann, molly holzschlag, eric meyer, or björn höhrmann. tim berners-lee responded a couple of month ago. now he announced reforms in his blog. […]
de.maschine » design boards and standardistas said on
november 8th, 2006 at 5:39 am:
[…] zeldman’s original post […]
html 5? no ms xhtml? - foros del web said on
november 14th, 2006 at 10:26 pm:
[…] mu, muy de acuerdo en lo que dice patomas… el w3c parece un consejo de ents… todos muy sabios, pero demoran años en tomar una decisión, y más años todavía en que esa decisión se vea reflejada en la vida corriente de los mortales por todos eso, algunos gurús (como por ejemplo zeldman) cuestionaron la inoperancia del w3c y están promoviendo mirar hacia un lugar diferente: los microformatos. los he mirado poco (muy por arriba nomás), pero creo que pueden ser una buena alternativa para con lo que ya tenemos, y de una forma modulizada, aplicar soluciones concretas a situaciones concretas. obiamente que el w3c cumple un papel importante, pero sus aciones e ideas para mi se alejan un poco del plano en el que nos movemos la mayoría de los desarrolladores… para entenderlos hay que pensar en varios años para adelante (y en el ie 11 que saldrá en el 2045 ) por eso me parece un poco perder el tiempo discutiendo lo bueno que va a estar el xhtml 2.0.. cuando algunos navegadores ni siquiera soportan el 1.0 __________________ osiris producciones, desarrollo web miembro de la free software foundation qu es el drm? decile no! […]
wiggled@cic said on
november 23rd, 2006 at 8:11 am:
[…] we’ve been talking about the w3c in class just recently and i happened upon this article by tim berners-lee, inventor of the www, just after a discussion about the slow progress being made with css3. while css may have its own controversies though, (x)html has been at the root of many an argument amongst web evangalists for a while now, in particular about how it should evolve for future versions. for example, the what-wg was formed in response to perceived tardiness on the w3c’s part in coming up with a practical update to html and jeffrey zeldman has expressed serious concerns, amongst many others.sir tim’s blog post describes how the w3c is planning to create a new group to work on the limitations of the current variants of html and come up with pragmatic, practical suggestions for improvements based on the needs of developers. it all sounds great, but i can’t help thinking that for all the improvements in specifications in the world, none of it means anything without browser support and that means we’ll be stuck with what we’ve got for a good while yet.labels: web standards […]
aot 2006 - standblog - tristan nitot sur les standards du w3c, les navigateurs et la technologie said on
december 14th, 2006 at 11:00 pm:
[…] vous l’avez srement remarqu dernirement, nombreux sont les acteurs du web qui tombent bras raccourcis sur le w3c… hixie, zeldman, eric meyer, molly (qui, en faisant mine de dfendre le w3c, enfonce en fait le clou). mme karl, respectueux du processus interne au w3c, a list 69 commentaires sur les limites, incohrences et dangers de xhtml2. daniel n’est pas en reste, avec quantit de billets rageurs (dont 1, 2 et 3). alors, le w3c marcherait-il sur la tte ? comment en est on arriv l ? que peut-on faire pour remdier cela ? david baron tente de rpondre ces questions ; […]
naif said on
december 22nd, 2006 at 5:29 pm:
i dont think the w3c could possibly consult the users (or designers for that matter). everyone would have a different opinion and/or needs and that would just make their lives more miserable. the problem in my opinion is that, the w3c was established very late. why is it that everyone follows other standards, be it for tcp/ip, irc etc but fails to imply with the standards imposed by the w3c? i guess its the freedom they have given (plus the time it took for it to get established ofcourse! :p). whose going to stop them? with standards, w3c should build strict policies too. “follow our policies or dont be a member of this organisation!”. that might sound dumb to most readers but lets face it, what else can they do?
hanibal said on
january 15th, 2007 at 7:19 am:
now, what is there for the more pedestrian users of css? while there were some misguided conclusions in dvorak’s article, there were also elements of truth. css can be very frustrating when one is left to some sort of self-taught methodology. standards bodies don’t provide the kinds of answers that work-a-day css users need in spite of protestations to the contrary. if experts can’t agree, what are those of us on the outside supposed to do? books about css sometimes use valuable chapters explaining
dwh!{dezwozhere:blog}: webwatch archives said on
january 16th, 2007 at 3:27 pm:
[…] prompted by bjoern hoehrmann’s reasons for leaving the w3c, jeffrey zeldman weighs in on the w3c’s trajectory in an angry fix, beholden to its corporate paymasters who alone can afford membership, the w3c seems increasingly detached from ordinary designers and developers. truth be told, we and our practical concerns never drove the organization…alas, the organization appears unconcerned with our needs and uninterested in tapping our experience and insights. it remains a closed, a one-way system. like old-fashioned pre-cable tv advertising. not like the web. […]
an angry fix - nick verstappen said on
january 26th, 2007 at 12:16 pm:
[…] an angry fix […]
standards essay said on
january 28th, 2007 at 8:13 pm:
[…] zeldman, jeffrey. (2006). an angry fix. zeldman.com. http://www.zeldman.com/2006/07/17/an-angry-fix/ […]
games said on
july 21st, 2007 at 1:13 am:
in addition to the complaints you’ve registered here, i think the process for reviewing and grading websites is also seriously broken. too often a page that utilizes tons of code will be downgraded for very minor infractions, and many times this means pages with tons of violations can essentially wind up with the same rating as a complex page with minor violations. in addition, there have been lots of questions raised lately about whether standards have a tendency to stifle creativity in some programmers, never allowing them to push the boundaries of what is acceptable in order to see what might be accomplished outside the rules. generally, i think standards are a good idea, and i have use them and even promote them in the past, but i do think that there are some major issues that need to be addressed if the average programmer is going to continue to support them.
custom web design studio said on
october 5th, 2007 at 4:45 pm:
i think having multiple standards organizations in the same arena dilutes the authority of all of them. many people setting up alternative standards organizations know this. that they are going ahead anyway may indicate recklessness, but more likely it indicates the severity of the w3c’s problems.
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